Comments on: The Loneliness of True Religion http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/ Musings on Faith Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:44:01 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Paul Ricketts http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-42 Paul Ricketts Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:13:12 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-42 Friends, I just finish reading a blog message by Will Taber blog. His blog is public and is part of the larger Quaker Blog community. http://gtitl.blogspot.com/2007/12/christmas-and-adult-christ.html I have always enjoyed his blogs but this one in particular spoke to my heart. He says, What about when the infant Christ has grown within us and has become the adult Christ? Are we willing to share an adult, fully grown faith with each other? Can we learn to speak with the spiritual voice of a mature adult and not just in the tentative words of the spiritual infant? In the scriptures we read, ‘’And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him. . (Luke 2:46) My prayer for Religious Society of Friends in the New Year is that we will continue to follow the example of Jesus to grow and became strong filled with wisdom and know that the grace of God is upon us Friends,
I just finish reading a blog message by Will Taber blog.
His blog is public and is part of the larger Quaker Blog community.

http://gtitl.blogspot.com/2007/12/christmas-and-adult-christ.html

I have always enjoyed his blogs but this one in particular
spoke to my heart.

He says, What about when the infant Christ has grown within us and has become the adult Christ? Are we willing to share an adult, fully grown faith with each other? Can we learn to speak with the spiritual voice of a mature adult and not just in the tentative words of the spiritual infant?

In the scriptures we read, ‘’And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God
was upon him. . (Luke 2:46)

My prayer for Religious Society of Friends in the New Year
is that we will continue to follow the example of Jesus to
grow and became strong filled with wisdom
and know that the grace of God is upon us

]]> By: Bill Samuel http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-37 Bill Samuel Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:00:08 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-37 What I think is of enormous value is to have others with whom you can have deep spiritual sharing. This doesn't have to be your meeting/church or even within it. It can be a small group which meets more or less regularly. It can be particular people whom you see occasionally either one-on-one or with more than one. Today, it can even be people you have never met in person but with whom you share over the Internet. Sometimes it is even the "cloud of witnesses" who have gone before. "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." (Hebrews 10:25) I do believe this is an important passage, and it actually seems more like small groups than large worship gatherings. Ultimately, of course, the most important one to meet with is God. What I think is of enormous value is to have others with whom you can have deep spiritual sharing. This doesn’t have to be your meeting/church or even within it. It can be a small group which meets more or less regularly. It can be particular people whom you see occasionally either one-on-one or with more than one. Today, it can even be people you have never met in person but with whom you share over the Internet. Sometimes it is even the “cloud of witnesses” who have gone before.

“Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:25) I do believe this is an important passage, and it actually seems more like small groups than large worship gatherings.

Ultimately, of course, the most important one to meet with is God.

]]> By: Allison http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-22 Allison Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:41:38 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-22 I wouldn't say I'm a malcontent, as I am completely new to Quakerism, so am delighted to find something that matches my beliefs as closely as it does. But there are things I'm critical about, and decided the only way to work on them was to embrace Quakerism and hope that others feel what I feel. I put some of it into words here: http://rainbowruminations.blogspot.com/2007/12/rant-what-young-people-need.html I wouldn’t say I’m a malcontent, as I am completely new to Quakerism, so am delighted to find something that matches my beliefs as closely as it does. But there are things I’m critical about, and decided the only way to work on them was to embrace Quakerism and hope that others feel what I feel. I put some of it into words here: http://rainbowruminations.blogspot.com/2007/12/rant-what-young-people-need.html

]]> By: Joanna Hoyt http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-20 Joanna Hoyt Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:47:40 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-20 I've been struggling with this question too. I actually was part of a very rich, deep, supportive and challenging Meeting (Portland ME) which helped me to discern a calling that took me ten hours away, to a Catholic Worker farm where I don't have access to a Meeting in which I am able to participate constructively. I miss that. And in big Quaker gatherinjgs I often hear people saying that this is their true home, this is where people really understand them,this is whee they can really feel God, but that is not my experience. So for now sustenance comes from daily worship with my family, and with whoever else comes to join us; we've worshipped after the manner of Friends with Catholics, Pentecostals, mainstream Protestants, and a self-described agnostic who nevertheless times his visits to include as many prayer times as possible. And we meet monthly or every other month with a group of Friends for extended worship and discernment of our callings. I wasn't born Quaker, and I'm ambivalent about whether to call myself Quaker. I am trying to be faithful to God--most of the time-- and find fellowship and communion with others who are trying to be faithful. I don't mean to gloss over your distinction between primacy of Scripture/Church/direct revelation; but I think the difference between these is much less than the difference between faithfulness and acculturation/security-seeking. I find many Quaker writings, and many other writings, helpful in this process; I find that the Quaker practices are especially helpful in drawing me closer to God. I'd like to have a group in which I unequivocally belonged, but I don't have that. and it isn't what I really need. I’ve been struggling with this question too. I actually was part of a very rich, deep, supportive and challenging Meeting (Portland ME) which helped me to discern a calling that took me ten hours away, to a Catholic Worker farm where I don’t have access to a Meeting in which I am able to participate constructively. I miss that. And in big Quaker gatherinjgs I often hear people saying that this is their true home, this is where people really understand them,this is whee they can really feel God, but that is not my experience. So for now sustenance comes from daily worship with my family, and with whoever else comes to join us; we’ve worshipped after the manner of Friends with Catholics, Pentecostals, mainstream Protestants, and a self-described agnostic who nevertheless times his visits to include as many prayer times as possible. And we meet monthly or every other month with a group of Friends for extended worship and discernment of our callings. I wasn’t born Quaker, and I’m ambivalent about whether to call myself Quaker. I am trying to be faithful to God–most of the time– and find fellowship and communion with others who are trying to be faithful. I don’t mean to gloss over your distinction between primacy of Scripture/Church/direct revelation; but I think the difference between these is much less than the difference between faithfulness and acculturation/security-seeking. I find many Quaker writings, and many other writings, helpful in this process; I find that the Quaker practices are especially helpful in drawing me closer to God. I’d like to have a group in which I unequivocally belonged, but I don’t have that. and it isn’t what I really need.

]]> By: Paul Ricketts http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-19 Paul Ricketts Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:51:30 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-19 Lord, I want to be a Christian in my heart, in my heart. Lord, I want to be more loving in my heart, in my heart Lord, I want to be like Jesus in my heart, in my heart I agree when we experience the transformative power of love in our lives we become more loving, more like Jesus each day. I have come to love this prayer from the Roman liturgy. In this great sacrament you feed your people and strengthen them in holiness, so that the family of humankind may come to walk in the light of one faith, in one communion of love. The sacrament for me in this prayer, in which we experience transformative power of love is the Meeting for Worship. Paul Lord, I want to be a Christian in my heart, in my heart.
Lord, I want to be more loving in my heart, in my heart
Lord, I want to be like Jesus in my heart, in my heart

I agree when we experience the transformative
power of love in our lives we become more loving,
more like Jesus each day.

I have come to love this prayer from the Roman liturgy.
In this great sacrament you feed your people and strengthen them in holiness, so that the family of humankind may come to walk in the light of
one faith, in one communion of love.

The sacrament for me in this prayer, in which we
experience transformative power of love is the
Meeting for Worship.
Paul

]]> By: Susanne Kromberg http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-18 Susanne Kromberg Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:47:29 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-18 In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, so we are indeed brothers and sisters at the levels at which it really matters. There are also differences in belief that make a difference to me. When people ask me whether Quakers are Protestants, I say no. At the heart of Protestantism, as I see it, is the belief that the Bible is the Word of God. Neither are Quakers Catholic, in my opinion, since Catholics see the Church (the Pope as the final authority) as the Word of God. For me, the heart of Quakerism is a third option, neither Catholic nor Protestant: the living Christ is the Word of God, and the true authority. In the final instance, that is found in personal experience (although tested by the community). That belief is so fundamental to my life, my decision-making, and my experience of God that I find it hard to participate in faith settings that don't put experience first. That's what I think of as my Quaker identity, although I'm the first to admit that that belief is not the exclusive domain of Quakers... In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, so we are indeed brothers and sisters at the levels at which it really matters.

There are also differences in belief that make a difference to me. When people ask me whether Quakers are Protestants, I say no. At the heart of Protestantism, as I see it, is the belief that the Bible is the Word of God. Neither are Quakers Catholic, in my opinion, since Catholics see the Church (the Pope as the final authority) as the Word of God.

For me, the heart of Quakerism is a third option, neither Catholic nor Protestant: the living Christ is the Word of God, and the true authority. In the final instance, that is found in personal experience (although tested by the community). That belief is so fundamental to my life, my decision-making, and my experience of God that I find it hard to participate in faith settings that don’t put experience first.

That’s what I think of as my Quaker identity, although I’m the first to admit that that belief is not the exclusive domain of Quakers…

]]> By: Paul Ricketts http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-17 Paul Ricketts Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:18:53 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-17 As a Christian who attends a Friends Meeting (unprogrammed ) in which I am active member of what attracts me to Quakerism is it has always been a religion of Jesus, love and service then religion about Jesus, bound up in creeds. The pre-Easter Jesus, the teacher of wisdom and love and compassion and healing. That in a nutshell for me is the heart of Quakerism. Denominational labels Quaker or other, are primarily a reflection of participation more than an identity, though I recognize that denominational experience is one of the ingredients. And while I use religious language with great in intrepidation, we are all brothers and sisters. Paul As a Christian who attends a Friends Meeting (unprogrammed ) in which I am active member of
what attracts me to Quakerism is it
has always been a religion of Jesus, love and service
then religion about Jesus, bound up in creeds.
The pre-Easter Jesus, the teacher of wisdom and
love and compassion and healing.
That in a nutshell for me is the heart of Quakerism.
Denominational labels Quaker or other, are primarily a reflection of participation more than an identity, though I recognize that denominational experience is one of the ingredients. And while I use religious language with
great in intrepidation, we are all brothers and sisters.
Paul

]]> By: Susanne Kromberg http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-16 Susanne Kromberg Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:24:30 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-16 I appreciate your insight - and if we don't find what we seek it is great if we can bring it to Meeting ourselves. The one thing we can't bring ourselves, though, is a community of people who are looking for the same thing we are looking for... My solution has been to stay in my Meeting and to create gathering opportunites that can draw in the people who are interested in the things that provide the spiritual sustenance I need, such as Bible study, peace/economic justice book group, contemplative retreats. People come from a variety of backgrounds - Quaker and non - to these gatherings. With one exception, these events are sparsely attended by Friends from my Meeting. That's quite OK with me, and I am being spiritually nourished. But there is still no community.... It is odd, isn't it, that it would be so hard to find a Quaker or other faith community that is actively engaging in a faith-based response to economic justice? I appreciate your insight – and if we don’t find what we seek it is great if we can bring it to Meeting ourselves. The one thing we can’t bring ourselves, though, is a community of people who are looking for the same thing we are looking for…
My solution has been to stay in my Meeting and to create gathering opportunites that can draw in the people who are interested in the things that provide the spiritual sustenance I need, such as Bible study, peace/economic justice book group, contemplative retreats. People come from a variety of backgrounds – Quaker and non – to these gatherings. With one exception, these events are sparsely attended by Friends from my Meeting. That’s quite OK with me, and I am being spiritually nourished.
But there is still no community….
It is odd, isn’t it, that it would be so hard to find a Quaker or other faith community that is actively engaging in a faith-based response to economic justice?

]]> By: Paul Carpenter http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-15 Paul Carpenter Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:32:37 +0000 http://susannekromberg.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-loneliness-of-true-religion/#comment-15 It's always worth listening to those who are seeking the truth, less so those who claim to have found it. Any faith that you haven't looked critically on and seriously considered if it is worth anything at all, is very much worthless. If, after having considered what you were looking for in your meeting, you conclude that it isn't there, then I think you're presented with a choice: 1) search for it somewhere else, 2) bring it there yourself. I hope you find whatever way is right for you. It’s always worth listening to those who are seeking the truth, less so those who claim to have found it. Any faith that you haven’t looked critically on and seriously considered if it is worth anything at all, is very much worthless.

If, after having considered what you were looking for in your meeting, you conclude that it isn’t there, then I think you’re presented with a choice: 1) search for it somewhere else, 2) bring it there yourself.

I hope you find whatever way is right for you.

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